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Item #4: Hall of Honour

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  • Item #4: Hall of Honour

    What are the advantages of a service such as the Hall of Honor? Does this help or hinder the simming experience?
    Thoughts?
    Former CRO, LO, BFCC, and TF72CO.

  • #2
    It helps, I can say... however, the process is not as good as it should be. It takes way too long to approve awards that really don't need the scrutiny. We should be able to trust our Commanding Officers to submit award nominations for IC awards for their crew and trust that it is correct.

    Something that happens over in Obsidian Fleet with awards is a Level system, where Level 1 awards are approved automatically, Level 2 awards require the Fleet Services Director's approval and Level 3 awards are fleet-based or those special yearly awards.

    We could do something similar here. Look at the awards that can be approved straight away, like a whole lot of those IC awards. Trust our CO's that they are submitting correct information. Those awards that may need further details, set them to be approved by the HoH Admin, or the HoH team as a whole, and then have the special monthly, quarterly and yearly awards as they are, with the requirements. Those special ones work just fine.
    Captain Anthony Richardson - Commanding Officer, USS Excalibur

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Richardson View Post
      It helps, I can say... however, the process is not as good as it should be. It takes way too long to approve awards that really don't need the scrutiny. We should be able to trust our Commanding Officers to submit award nominations for IC awards for their crew and trust that it is correct.

      Something that happens over in Obsidian Fleet with awards is a Level system, where Level 1 awards are approved automatically, Level 2 awards require the Fleet Services Director's approval and Level 3 awards are fleet-based or those special yearly awards.

      We could do something similar here. Look at the awards that can be approved straight away, like a whole lot of those IC awards. Trust our CO's that they are submitting correct information. Those awards that may need further details, set them to be approved by the HoH Admin, or the HoH team as a whole, and then have the special monthly, quarterly and yearly awards as they are, with the requirements. Those special ones work just fine.
      Basically +1 here?

      I also think we have maybe too many awards. Some may debate me on this, but I'm just sharing an opinion. When I spin up a sim I typically put in like 10 awards that I will use. If I need to award something else, I'll just use the fleet management system (HoH here) as a one-off. So as a CO, I may not even look at many of the awards. So to me they are just kind of cluttered. Perhaps implementing the level system as described above would make the clutter less an issue. But that's a lot to go through. Yes, I know - military rawr. But we're a club mimicking a military and we don't necessarily need everything the US/UK Navies have. Again, just a thought/opinion.



      Comment


      • #4
        I wouldn't say there is too many awards, but on one hand there might be. I've actually gotten to the point that we don't have some basic ship awards, that I've created several for the Excalibur, and I've noted that they are ship-based so are only relevant to my simulation. I think we can look at some awards that have never been issued and ask are they ever going to be issued, and maybe look at some basic, entry level awards like newcomer of the month, that can be ship-based (so not entered into the HoH itself), but ship-based. Since we dont have a system like other fleets (i.e. Obsidian Fleet, Pegasus Fleet) where character files can be transferred from one sim to another and players can keep their awards, this might be something to look deeper into, how players can keep ship-based awards if they were to move as a reminder of their time on the previous simulation.
        Captain Anthony Richardson - Commanding Officer, USS Excalibur

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Richardson View Post
          Since we dont have a system like other fleets (i.e. Obsidian Fleet, Pegasus Fleet) where character files can be transferred from one sim to another and players can keep their awards, this might be something to look deeper into, how players can keep ship-based awards if they were to move as a reminder of their time on the previous simulation.
          We actually do. It's in beta testing right now, and will be live in a couple weeks
          Bravo Fleet Academy Officer


          Formerly...
          BFCC / BFXO / BFIO / TF38CO / TF72CO / TF93CO

          Comment


          • #6
            Hall of Honour really to me enhances the experience. Before I became a bfa member winning a player of the month just made me feel very appreciative and made me think that as a player I was respected.

            Little things can go a long way to making someone feel needed or wanted.
            Formerly Lt General Jagged Anderson Academy Commandant
            Formerly Rear Admiral Diego Macedo TFCO Task Force 38

            Comment


            • #7
              This is an easy action item list:
              • Speed up the review/approval process
              • Review available awards and prune/adjust where necessary
              • Review criteria for awards and re-evaluate the levels by which an award must clear.
              I'm going to take a moment and put on my HOH hat. I will admit that there are many awards that are "instant" and that I do have a couple of those instant awards that I haven't announced yet. My reasoning for this is simple. It's not a time issue or what have you. I don't like announcing awards individually. I can't put into words why I feel this way... I just don't like it. I prefer to announce a bunch at one time, and I try not to let a month go by without announcing awards. There have been times when I'll announce a couple times a month and what not.

              So, I ask you all, what would you rather see? A cluster released at once, or awards announced as soon as they clear the requirements? I don't ask this as a smart-alec question, but a serious one. If the consensus is announce individually and more often, I'll adopt it immediately.
              Last edited by greenfelt22; 01-17-2017, 12:42 AM.
              Former CRO, LO, BFCC, and TF72CO.

              Comment


              • #8
                I think anticipation is a real boost. They are 'Monthly' awards. So, I think they should be held and released at the same time each month. Everyone is going to be looking at the list and seeing 'my name'. If hey happen several times a month, then the possibility of hem being overlooked goes up.
                Dimitri Koslev / SS Boreas
                Lt. Vincent Kramer / USS Trafalgar
                Ens. Katherine Welch / USS Perenolde

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Densherier View Post
                  I think anticipation is a real boost. They are 'Monthly' awards. So, I think they should be held and released at the same time each month. Everyone is going to be looking at the list and seeing 'my name'. If hey happen several times a month, then the possibility of hem being overlooked goes up.
                  I'd tend to agree here. Having a defined day ensures that everyone knows what date they will be announced. I will add to that, do we really need to announce every single award? I feel that having to announce every single award is part of the delay. Why send out an announcement thread for one award, the HoH will stock up on awards, and then announce all in one go. What happens if I nominate someone on my crew today, but there is no nomination from anybody else for say six weeks. I'm left in limbo wondering about my nomination?

                  I'd proposed that only the "higher up" awards like monthly awards or those really special awards that need BFA confirmation be announced, and the awards like the IC battle ones or those "instant" awards are just emailed to the CO after being approved. The HoH gets the email when a nomination is submitted, and CO's are asked to include their email address, so there is a perfect avenue to send a quick reply email to the CO saying "hey, all approved" That way, it can then be announced to that crew. I'd rather see the award announcements be used for those big awards that are fleet-based and would be celebrated by everyone. Not being rude, but I really don't care about what IC battle awards a player in a simulation elsewhere has. That is for them and their simulation to celebrate.
                  Captain Anthony Richardson - Commanding Officer, USS Excalibur

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Richardson View Post

                    I'd tend to agree here. Having a defined day ensures that everyone knows what date they will be announced. I will add to that, do we really need to announce every single award? I feel that having to announce every single award is part of the delay. Why send out an announcement thread for one award, the HoH will stock up on awards, and then announce all in one go. What happens if I nominate someone on my crew today, but there is no nomination from anybody else for say six weeks. I'm left in limbo wondering about my nomination?

                    I'd proposed that only the "higher up" awards like monthly awards or those really special awards that need BFA confirmation be announced, and the awards like the IC battle ones or those "instant" awards are just emailed to the CO after being approved. The HoH gets the email when a nomination is submitted, and CO's are asked to include their email address, so there is a perfect avenue to send a quick reply email to the CO saying "hey, all approved" That way, it can then be announced to that crew. I'd rather see the award announcements be used for those big awards that are fleet-based and would be celebrated by everyone. Not being rude, but I really don't care about what IC battle awards a player in a simulation elsewhere has. That is for them and their simulation to celebrate.
                    I'm open to this.
                    Former CRO, LO, BFCC, and TF72CO.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Three additional things I'd like to throw into this discussion:
                      1. While many of the awards have distinct purposes, and many of these awards are likely deserved by our player base, as it stands now, it's hard to know when someone has actually qualified for them. Consider, for example, the Gold Star Citation. It's given for "distinguished service in their assigned role within the fleet", but what is distinguished service? How is it differentiated from the Silver Star citation, which is also given for "distinguished service in their assigned role within the fleet"? In fact, when you load the two pages, they're identical except for an extra line break. Even if we fixed that, the Criteria section is basically just that (1) only the BFA can nominate, (2) that a CO can recommend to a BFA member to nominate, (3) that proof is needed and (4) that the HoH will review. Nothing in the Criteria section describes what the player actually has to do. I'd love to see an overhaul of the Criteria section.
                      2. Tom, Teylas Ramar and others have, at various times, proposed awards systems that are more tiered in nature, where you have awards for the same types of service that can be nominated/conferred by different groups of people. So like a Silver Star might be awarded directly by a TFCO, while a Gold Star might be a vote of the BFA, and that there'd be equivalent lesser ones awardable by a CO. Imagine a table with CO, TFCO and BFA as the rows, and then a set of different actions taken that lead to their granting, so one about recruitment, one about collaboration, one about internet services, etc. I'm not the person to speak directly at this sort of a system, but I do think it'd be worth considering.
                      3. The new BFMS will include a way to track OOC awards given to players and IC awards given to characters (replacing the current wiki approach), showing them on the dossier for the player and the character respectively. Not really an action item for this work group, but just something I wanted to throw out as a heads up.
                      Bravo Fleet Academy Officer


                      Formerly...
                      BFCC / BFXO / BFIO / TF38CO / TF72CO / TF93CO

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by JonM View Post
                        Three additional things I'd like to throw into this discussion:
                        1. While many of the awards have distinct purposes, and many of these awards are likely deserved by our player base, as it stands now, it's hard to know when someone has actually qualified for them. Consider, for example, the Gold Star Citation. It's given for "distinguished service in their assigned role within the fleet", but what is distinguished service? How is it differentiated from the Silver Star citation, which is also given for "distinguished service in their assigned role within the fleet"? In fact, when you load the two pages, they're identical except for an extra line break. Even if we fixed that, the Criteria section is basically just that (1) only the BFA can nominate, (2) that a CO can recommend to a BFA member to nominate, (3) that proof is needed and (4) that the HoH will review. Nothing in the Criteria section describes what the player actually has to do. I'd love to see an overhaul of the Criteria section.
                        2. Tom, Teylas Ramar and others have, at various times, proposed awards systems that are more tiered in nature, where you have awards for the same types of service that can be nominated/conferred by different groups of people. So like a Silver Star might be awarded directly by a TFCO, while a Gold Star might be a vote of the BFA, and that there'd be equivalent lesser ones awardable by a CO. Imagine a table with CO, TFCO and BFA as the rows, and then a set of different actions taken that lead to their granting, so one about recruitment, one about collaboration, one about internet services, etc. I'm not the person to speak directly at this sort of a system, but I do think it'd be worth considering.
                        This makes a lot of sense. As far as I'm concerned, consider this one done.

                        Originally posted by JonM View Post
                        1. The new BFMS will include a way to track OOC awards given to players and IC awards given to characters (replacing the current wiki approach), showing them on the dossier for the player and the character respectively. Not really an action item for this work group, but just something I wanted to throw out as a heads up.
                        Strike the earlier comment. Consider it done when we get the new BFMS up and running.
                        Former CRO, LO, BFCC, and TF72CO.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by JonM View Post
                          1. While many of the awards have distinct purposes, and many of these awards are likely deserved by our player base, as it stands now, it's hard to know when someone has actually qualified for them. Consider, for example, the Gold Star Citation. It's given for "distinguished service in their assigned role within the fleet", but what is distinguished service? How is it differentiated from the Silver Star citation, which is also given for "distinguished service in their assigned role within the fleet"? In fact, when you load the two pages, they're identical except for an extra line break. Even if we fixed that, the Criteria section is basically just that (1) only the BFA can nominate, (2) that a CO can recommend to a BFA member to nominate, (3) that proof is needed and (4) that the HoH will review. Nothing in the Criteria section describes what the player actually has to do. I'd love to see an overhaul of the Criteria section.
                          +1 on this one. I think we should look at for really, all awards (bare those that even a monkey could figure out, like the time served ones), we write up a short criteria for each award, so people can strive for them, and CO's have an idea of when it might be worth looking into submitting a nomination for the award.

                          Captain Anthony Richardson - Commanding Officer, USS Excalibur

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            greenfelt22 can you guys make a work item of this work group to be someone put together actual considerations for each of the awards? Put up a post on here where they list them out and then they can be discussed?

                            As far as the proposal of doing something more grand, if people think this would be a good idea, definitely worth looking at as an item down the line.
                            Bravo Fleet Academy Officer


                            Formerly...
                            BFCC / BFXO / BFIO / TF38CO / TF72CO / TF93CO

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              JonM, added to the above action review list.
                              Former CRO, LO, BFCC, and TF72CO.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                I agree and as a tfco before there were some awards I want to grant but always figured that they would be denied. Usually I put them in for an award that maybe wasn't as hard to be approved.

                                I know that as a member of hoh and having been on their quite some time I know that it's slower to get things discussed some of that comes from the fact that we are trying to discuss the items fully as well as see if the award fits. Sometimes this can take a longer time than what is expected but we have been trying to get the discussion done and awards done a lot quicker.

                                Geeenfelt is very meticulous about posting items for discussion.
                                Formerly Lt General Jagged Anderson Academy Commandant
                                Formerly Rear Admiral Diego Macedo TFCO Task Force 38

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by zyrell View Post
                                  I agree and as a tfco before there were some awards I want to grant but always figured that they would be denied. Usually I put them in for an award that maybe wasn't as hard to be approved.

                                  I know that as a member of hoh and having been on their quite some time I know that it's slower to get things discussed some of that comes from the fact that we are trying to discuss the items fully as well as see if the award fits. Sometimes this can take a longer time than what is expected but we have been trying to get the discussion done and awards done a lot quicker.

                                  Geeenfelt is very meticulous about posting items for discussion.
                                  I think that is where a change needs to come. I'm not sure that every single award needs discussing. There are so many awards that can simply be taken on face value and approved. There is no issue in that, as there would be no issue in removing the approval of an award if it seen to have been awarded in an incorrect fashion. I would think that the tier system works well in that everyone knows that Level 1 are automatically approved, Level 2 require that HoH discussion and Level 3 are fleet-based only and are based from either BFA/BFCC nominations or are fleet-wide like monthly awards.
                                  Captain Anthony Richardson - Commanding Officer, USS Excalibur

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by Richardson View Post

                                    I think that is where a change needs to come. I'm not sure that every single award needs discussing. There are so many awards that can simply be taken on face value and approved. There is no issue in that, as there would be no issue in removing the approval of an award if it seen to have been awarded in an incorrect fashion. I would think that the tier system works well in that everyone knows that Level 1 are automatically approved, Level 2 require that HoH discussion and Level 3 are fleet-based only and are based from either BFA/BFCC nominations or are fleet-wide like monthly awards.
                                    For the record, Level 1 awards are automatically approved and not brought before the HoH committee for review. I simply don't announce them until a sufficent batch is ready.
                                    Former CRO, LO, BFCC, and TF72CO.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      From what I was told any IC awards are auto as well.
                                      Formerly Lt General Jagged Anderson Academy Commandant
                                      Formerly Rear Admiral Diego Macedo TFCO Task Force 38

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        At this point, the consensus seems to be that not announcing everything at once is suitable.

                                        Moving forward, this system will actually change with the BFMS. Nominations are handled in the backend, so it's easy to nominate yourself or a fellow player for awards. Once the nomination is entered, the HOH Admin can review it immediately. If it's Level 1, it can be awarded on the spot and instantly shows up in the player's bio (Neat, right!?). If it's Level 2 or Higher, the Admin can move it along accordingly.

                                        I believe what we need to do as a Workgroup is:
                                        • Evaluate the current awards.
                                        • Determine if changes/removals/additions need to be made.
                                        Any volunteers to start?
                                        Former CRO, LO, BFCC, and TF72CO.

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