Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Taking Action #2 - Struggling Sims

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Taking Action #2 - Struggling Sims

    The other thread will stay open, but the focus here is to take these action items and fulfill them or create workable solutions.

    Fleet Level
    • BFA to lend Roleplaying advice to COs on regular basis
    • Fleet Specific Instructions for website, and even use of the stock Bravo Fleet Skin (should more skins be made?)
    • Emphasis on Training for all, including players & XOs (deferred to the Academy for now).
    • Evaluate terms and usage of NPCs, PNPCs, and related systems
    TFCO Level
    • "Recommended" List for Starting Out. Ideas for News Items, Posts, Procedures, NPCs, etc. Basically a "Starter Kit"
    • Weekly/Biweekly Checks with New Sims for first 90 days.
    CO Level
    • Create a Support Group - Operated much like these workgroups where a Senior/Experienced CO or TFCO acts as a sounding board for advice and help
    • Explore options for players such as Guest Writers
    • Display a "Difficulty" Level and/or make more mission information publicly available.
    • Emphasis on appreciating and involving crew members
    I propose that we start at the TFCO Level with the "Starting Out" Packet. That seems to be the easiest and most effective item for now.
    Former CRO, LO, BFCC, and TF72CO.

  • #2
    Giving this a bump. If you were a new CO (or when you were a new CO), what are some things you would have liked for your TFCO to pass on to you?
    Former CRO, LO, BFCC, and TF72CO.

    Comment


    • #3
      Honestly how to attract solid players. It is very hard to recruit players to sims and to get ones especially into positions of power like an XO or head of departments
      Formerly Lt General Jagged Anderson Academy Commandant
      Formerly Rear Admiral Diego Macedo TFCO Task Force 38

      Comment


      • #4
        Sadly, zyrell, then none of the above mentioned match really. I also gave a thought about it. They help COs with existing sims with already existing players (some have characters in multiple sims already to bolster the numbers at the cost of fun and devotion to one project).
        It is hard enough to ask people you know to start with the hobby - am I am about 40. Then, because of my job, I see children and young grown-ups rather wiping some data trash on a smartphone with real literacy and fantasy going down the drains. As chlidren, we played that stuff...we were acting like Kirk and co. Look at today how the children play now. I see game-consoles in modern children-roomss and a big TV. No books or the children going out to play somewhere else. And those do not always know Star Trek - or only as a single movie like Transformers, Avengers and so on...cool, but...they just consume and do not stick to it fandom-wise.
        I felt this change during my time as online-radio DJ. When I started, we had full chat rooms during the shows with people talking and having fun together. About 5 years later those are gone. Who knows IRC nowadays or uses a chatroom? Who listens to radio when they have youtube or spotify on their smartphones? We oldsters still do.
        We should face on a certain level the fact, that the player base just might narrow. People die, have families or other reasons to stop simming. But where do the new guys come from?
        And frankly, I do not know how to attract a new generation, but this is what we need to help struggling sims: attract new players and help them become good writers and endure the fact that we lose many to more shallow kinds of entertainments. Sadly as it sounds, but I try to be realistic.

        Comment


        • #5
          I think we all agree that one area we need to do better is in finding strategies to attract new players. However, we've got another working group that MBremer will be spearheading that should get rolling on that topic pretty soon here, so I think we can probably pull back from that part of this discussion and work on items that we can do within the current membership to help with these problems.

          So, to head towards greenfelt22's direct questions:

          Fleet Specific Instructions for website, and even use of the stock Bravo Fleet Skin (should more skins be made?)
          I totally think we should invest more into supporting our sim sites. When I go to look for a sim, as unfair as it may sound, one of the first things I look for is an aesthetic site that looks like someone put real attention into the details. Of course, that's not really fair, because not everyone who good at running a simm is also good at building a site - but yet it's still a bias I have. I totally think we should get together and see what we can do from a simm site perspective, and I've even started a proposal up the chain to see about awarding positions in the Internet Office (with rank, departmental listing on the wiki, and all) to people who support simm sites by building skins, hosting them, etc.

          I should also add that I'm in the process of building a Wordpress plugin that provides an alternative to Nova and forums, enabling folks who prefer the writing-centric approach prevalent on blogs while still wanting a bit of the simm-specific intelligence (like manifests, ranks, missions, etc.). I have already extended an offer to the BFA that I would like to release it under the Bravo Fleet name in places such as the Wordpress plugin repository (which, like Marriot's ranks once drew people to another Fleet, might serve to draw people here... although this is not the purpose of this particular work group, so I'll leave it at that).

          Evaluate terms and usage of NPCs, PNPCs, and related systems
          My preference: "player characters" and "story characters" with no Fleet-imposed limit (although a simm could still impose their own limit) on the number of "player characters" that someone has on a simm (as already supported by BFMS).

          BFA to lend Roleplaying advice to COs on regular basis
          How?

          "Recommended" List for Starting Out. Ideas for News Items, Posts, Procedures, NPCs, etc. Basically a "Starter Kit"
          Would someoen like to take lead on this from the work group? It might be nice, honestly, to see this originate from the players more than the TFCOs, since the players are even closer to the problems they're having. The TFCOs can then put their own spin on it too, based on things like upcoming canon plans, but on the whole, I don't think this is something that necessarily needs to be relegated to the TFCOs - and it could be shared across the Fleet, not just for a single TF, with only minor variations between.

          Weekly/Biweekly Checks with New Sims for first 90 days.
          I love this. How do we go about institutionalizing it? Just something that goes within the TFCO operating procedures in the BFA?

          Create a Support Group - Operated much like these workgroups where a Senior/Experienced CO or TFCO acts as a sounding board for advice and help
          Can we get a volunteer to start this support group? As soon as we have one (or a few), we can totally spin up a forum for this.

          Explore options for players such as Guest Writers
          From a technical perspective, you can already list characters available for "guest writing" by creating them with the type "Cameo" in BFMS.

          Display a "Difficulty" Level and/or make more mission information publicly available.
          Mission data can all be published in BFMS now

          Can we get a thread to specifically debate the terminology for a difficulty level? It may be its own debate to strike the right balance in terms. Thoughts from folks on this?

          Emphasis on appreciating and involving crew members
          How do we institutionalize this?
          Bravo Fleet Academy Officer


          Formerly...
          BFCC / BFXO / BFIO / TF38CO / TF72CO / TF93CO

          Comment


          • #6
            Hey

            For support services this is one thing I have been thinking about. Academy could assist with this as mentoring we then get help from senior cos that have good track record.

            I will volunteer to assist with this part to support cos if you need someone
            Formerly Lt General Jagged Anderson Academy Commandant
            Formerly Rear Admiral Diego Macedo TFCO Task Force 38

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by JonM View Post
              My preference: "player characters" and "story characters" with no Fleet-imposed limit (although a simm could still impose their own limit) on the number of "player characters" that someone has on a simm (as already supported by BFMS).
              Perhaps we need to send this topic to the Rules Workgroup....


              Originally posted by JonM View Post
              Would someone like to take lead on this ("Starter Kit") from the work group? It might be nice, honestly, to see this originate from the players more than the TFCOs, since the players are even closer to the problems they're having. The TFCOs can then put their own spin on it too, based on things like upcoming canon plans, but on the whole, I don't think this is something that necessarily needs to be relegated to the TFCOs - and it could be shared across the Fleet, not just for a single TF, with only minor variations between.
              I wouldn't mind starting this, but I would like some help.

              Originally posted by JonM View Post
              I love this. How do we go about institutionalizing it? Just something that goes within the TFCO operating procedures in the BFA?
              This could be required as part of the monthly reporting process. Require dates of check-ins and the feedback from it.

              Originally posted by JonM View Post
              Can we get a volunteer to start this support group? As soon as we have one (or a few), we can totally spin up a forum for this.
              As someone how already offers a fair amount of support to fellow COs, I wouldn't mind starting, though I don't want it all to look like the CRO is jumping at everything.

              Originally posted by JonM View Post
              Can we get a thread to specifically debate the terminology for a difficulty level? It may be its own debate to strike the right balance in terms. Thoughts from folks on this?
              Here: http://forum.bravofleet.com/forum/br...ion-difficulty


              Former CRO, LO, BFCC, and TF72CO.

              Comment


              • #8
                *wave his hand*

                I am here and at the same time I am not, I function in the background as supporting element in the transition towards wiki system of the plans you propose. But for short hi stake, my name is Patrick and I am the Commanding Officer of the Tornado. Oh yea also TFCO of TF93 and CA towards the Wiki.

                So introduction aside, a question popped up for me that in a way I had to deal with and it was searching work of getting it done correctly? The question is how do you help a type C class simulation (so special cases that are considered difficult by default to run) to get set up, back into the vibe and enough support so that it can flourish into a success. I know starter packs cover the begin, but how do you do that with a Klingon sim or a Civilian Cruiseline? You expect the player that wants to run it, to experience yes. But in a certain way, I feel obligated and responsible to help the good fellow. The question is how to help in Advance Sims

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by BlackWolf View Post
                  *wave his hand*

                  I am here and at the same time I am not, I function in the background as supporting element in the transition towards wiki system of the plans you propose. But for short hi stake, my name is Patrick and I am the Commanding Officer of the Tornado. Oh yea also TFCO of TF93 and CA towards the Wiki.

                  So introduction aside, a question popped up for me that in a way I had to deal with and it was searching work of getting it done correctly? The question is how do you help a type C class simulation (so special cases that are considered difficult by default to run) to get set up, back into the vibe and enough support so that it can flourish into a success. I know starter packs cover the begin, but how do you do that with a Klingon sim or a Civilian Cruiseline? You expect the player that wants to run it, to experience yes. But in a certain way, I feel obligated and responsible to help the good fellow. The question is how to help in Advance Sims
                  I don't think the Starter Kit would be genre specific. If anything, I imagine it would contain a handful of tips and tricks, maybe some case studies and examples, and even a list of recruitment sites. Surely, there will be more than that too.
                  Former CRO, LO, BFCC, and TF72CO.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Helping a unique sim that is class c is not going to be easy especially if it was say one of the alien sims unless you have run one yourself will be hard.

                    I guess the only way I can think is be there for them as a sounding board and help them if requested with thinking through ideas or missions.

                    Formerly Lt General Jagged Anderson Academy Commandant
                    Formerly Rear Admiral Diego Macedo TFCO Task Force 38

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      This is the first conversation in the 4 years I've been in the fleet where we've actively talked about Class C sims. I had to look at our C/BL's to know what that is.
                      Former CRO, LO, BFCC, and TF72CO.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by greenfelt22 View Post
                        This is the first conversation in the 4 years I've been in the fleet where we've actively talked about Class C sims. I had to look at our C/BL's to know what that is.
                        Originally, the Command Class system was put in place as a reward system with a bit of a focus on difficulty and canon realism (commanding a Galaxy as a Lt Cdr would be strange). Over the years, we switched the weighting around to focus the Class B's and C's as being those that were just more difficult to run - for example, a Prometheus has the multi-vector assault mode, meaning you might have three stories running in parallel, a Concorde has a starfighter story that's being told while you're also running the command deck, and a base has all sorts of strange dynamics.

                        In practice these days, we all but ignore the classes, except in that it allows for a discussion with the CO in the event that the sim they're proposing is going to be difficult mechanics-wise.
                        Bravo Fleet Academy Officer


                        Formerly...
                        BFCC / BFXO / BFIO / TF38CO / TF72CO / TF93CO

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Doing the good ol' fashioned bump here. Anyone have any new thoughts?
                          Former CRO, LO, BFCC, and TF72CO.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Well..besides quality writing the biggest issue in my book would be 'keep players happy and active' - in that case, you might be successful - even with small numbers. Now...what motivates players? Promotions cannot be done often. Medals and ribbons are nice, but will get blunt if you throw them at the players inflationally. Others, like PotM are kind of lottery. The players usually are not notified that they have been put into the election - only the winner does it. He even does not know against how many others he prooved himself or whether he simply was the only one in the month in question. More transparency might have an impact. Maybe a citation might come with a sample post out of the sim proving that the player deserves it.
                            Telling them they do good is one thing that works. Players got respect and regognition. We had that point already, so it is moot repeating it here. We do not play a tabletop RPG so we do not dish out 'magical items' or 'XP' to have the players to work with and to strive for.

                            Maybe we should put some thought into it? Let's start with an example:

                            CO can give 'XP' for well written posts and players can spend them for making their characters better by buying perks that define their characters a bit more and make things plausible gamewise. Like...Character has standard knowledge of electronics. Hard-wiring a malfunct door to open it for escape as the borg drones approach might prove a bit too difficult. A character with expert knowledge in electronics would be able to do it...it is reasonable.
                            So having the players start 'small' will encourage them to write good posts even about mundane and trivial stuff to get their characters in shape. Now - do not understand me wrong: I do not like the 'DING! - Lvl up!' and instant abilities. But communication with the CO like "Boss, I would like to upgrade basic electronics to advanced electronics." Could result into: "O.k. - write 3 quality posts about your character learning the new skills. When you are through and I am content, I will upgrade your electronics badge from copper to silver."
                            A system like this can be the carrot in front of the player's faces and be another reason to communicate with the GM/CO and help players to become more immersed with their characters as active character development is needed to proceed which in turn adds to post totals within a sim and raises activity levels. A player will obviously realize like 'hey - we only did 2 posts in the whole month - this is lame'. But: when there have been 6-10 posts written this is something different. He maybe still might not like the contents of the other posts as they are not related directly to his character, but he sees activity..a lot of it. Which can reproduce itself.

                            Just my 50 cents.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Varuh tr'Krell I must admit I'm intrigued by the idea. We are certainly not a table top RPG, so I do find it difficult to see how such a system would be put in place, not to mention the fact that we could not make it (nor would we try to make it) mandatory for our COs to use. I've seen several other sims use a point system for promotions and similar things. One thing I have done in the past is have a writing contest with the prize being able to write a particular type of post with the CO. Other sims have used writing challenges where you have to use certain words in a post or are given a writing prompt. Of course, I've seen them both succeed and fail.

                              The biggest issue is of course keeping people happy and active, and it all comes down to whether or not they enjoy the sim. I think if a CO can achieve that balance, then that's the first step towards success.

                              I still think your idea has merit. With the right set up and the right operation, it would be successful.
                              Former CRO, LO, BFCC, and TF72CO.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Nope...I see it like you do. This is nothing mandatory. But: We can duscuss such an idea openly in the forum and have people make advances on that field. The community can discuss proposals and playtest them.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Oh, I certainly agree. Your idea has merit for sure. How do you envision something like this working?
                                  Former CRO, LO, BFCC, and TF72CO.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Well...first of all, I would let the players start out by having a certain number of points on creation to dteremine, what relevant perks their characters have.
                                    For that, I would need a catalogue of relevant perks to choose from and nice, shiny symbols/medals depicting that skill along with a small description for the player to understand in what regions his character's prudence in a special field is availale for the sim.
                                    This also facilitates GM-ing as you can give active feedback on the character's actions and adjust the environmental reactions. E.g. a rather not strong character engages a security officer in close combat. Relevant perk would be close combat techniques where player has none and the security at least advanced if not elite which is 2-3 levels higher than the player has. No matter how detailed he writes about doing martial arts techniques...the result is the same: the character will be subdued in a 1 on 1 situation in 999/1000 times.
                                    The points a character has at the start should enable to pick skills required for his job (he has to match job description and would not gain the rest magically) and leave open a small margin to have his character know certain soft skills or knowledge outside of his work field.
                                    Otherwise, we would get 25 year old academy drop-outs with advanced fencing skills, master degree in exobiology and archeology although they are just trained star ship janitors ranking less than ensign. (irony off)
                                    Now, for the awarding: the CO can dish out XP on a monthly base to help players advance their character. I would make it dependant on activity and ingenuity. Active players earn more points as they have done more to further the sim. Ingenuity might allow the CO to tell his player 'Well, you performed well in a certain field so why not get the next perk at a -1 XP discount?' or allow one post to count against the ones in need to be written to level up a perk. One just might need to look how many XP are needed to get a raise in skill to balance XP awards. The system would require the players to continuously contribute to get better skills and require the CO to actually read the content to evaluate awards. In my book it is a win-win situation. These are my initial thoughts, not a refined system. But on a loose basis this might work. For me, the symbols for the skills would be the greatest issue as my drawing skills at a PC are almost non-existant due to lack of practice (and the time to do so).

                                    From a psychological point, we transform the simming in the eyes of the player from being abstracted writing and pure art (which is connected with work and not recreation) to a game (and people love games because they are fun and have an intrinsic motivation)
                                    Having intrinsic motivation as a mechanic that rewards the player and gives him goals is better than having an extrinsic motivation (you need one to applaud your efford to get recognition - and you might get none). Works at school - why not here?
                                    Last edited by Varuh tr'Krell; 02-12-2017, 01:08 PM.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Again, I think helping simulations is becoming too complicated with these XP systems and what-not. Go back to the K.I.S.S (Keep It Simple Silly). Use the leadership that a simulation has to get in there and see what is going on. I would rather see our TFCO/TFXO in the simulation, with an account and they can see 100% of what is going on and can make suggestions. We have Discord now where PM's can be floated around to get things moving for that simulation, where the CO can work with the TFSS to build the simulation up. Make things more complicated and you'll see more sims struggle because you are putting way too much into what the CO should be doing. Their focus in situations like this is to build the simulation up, get people on board and posting, not having to worry about "how many XP points do I give this player". We need to get back to what the whole idea of us being here is, and that is writing. Get all the extra administration out of the way and get back to the writing and creativity.
                                      Captain Anthony Richardson - Commanding Officer, USS Excalibur

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        I think that we should leave this up to the co of the sim. They can make things as complicated or as simplistic as they wish

                                        Having been in role playing for 30 years I do like experience system but in a free form style it will be hard to implement. I would be interested to see a sim using this method
                                        Formerly Lt General Jagged Anderson Academy Commandant
                                        Formerly Rear Admiral Diego Macedo TFCO Task Force 38

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X